Does a Complaint Trump Our 1st Amendment Right?
Download this episode (3 min)
On November 10th, 2007, Brother Robert and I had been preaching on in the Pismo Beach Plaza. It was one of those picture perfect days at the beach – not too hot, not too cold – so there was a good crowd gathered.
This photo was from a different day. The reason I posted it again will become obvious as you read on.
We preached for over an hour to those that sat in the sun and passed by. I was up preaching when I saw a Pismo Beach Police patrol car out of the corner of my eye. It’s always nice to see them because I know they are there to protect us and enforce the laws of the land.
I believe the Pismo Beach Police Department does a fine job of uphold our laws and keeping our town safe. I’ve had nothing but good experiences with the officers – even witnessing to several of them. This day was a bit different. Not that I had a bad experience with them but felt maybe the officer wasn’t upholding our 1st Amendment Rights.
On a side note: Does a Christian have, “rights?” I mean, we were bought with the blood of Jesus Christ – we are not our own. Mmm…
You be the judge. Was my 1st Amendment Rights violated or was the officer right in shutting me down? I mean, he said someone did complain about the preaching, sighting California Penal Code § 415.
When I got home I looked it up and here it is. Please read it and listen to the short podcast of the encounter with the officer. We didn’t get to finish our discussion - he was pulled away on another call.
California Penal Code § 415
§ 415. Disturbing the Peace
Any of the following persons shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not more than 90 days, a fine of not more than four hundred dollars ($400), or both such imprisonment and fine:
(1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or challenges another person in a public place to fight.
(2) Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another person by loud and unreasonable noise.
(3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.
Please leave a post to let me know what you think. Does our First Amendment rights end when there is a complaint? Did I handle myself in a Christian manner? Do you have any suggestions, critiques or comments?
In spite of this encounter with the police, Brother Robert and I moved and continued to preach. It was getting dark and cold and there were few people there. However, we continued to read aloud from God’s Word, I began expounding a bit on the 3rd Commandment, when a group of young people (two guys & two girls), standing by railing on the pier began intentionally blaspheming God’s Name – loudly. They began attacking Creationism and Christianity in general.
They were collage students; one of them named Kyle came on real strong with his best intellectual arguments. Problem is, I’m a bag of hammers when it comes to debating intellectually – so I did my best, just to keep things on edge for a bit, thinking it might draw in a few more to hear the Gospel. Anyhow, it got pretty hot between Kyle and I as we debated Creation vs. Evolution. Sure enough it drew in a few more people.
I felt someone put their hand on my shoulder. I looked over and was my Pastor from our first church we used to attend. Pastor Robert and his wife Tammy showed up and asked, “What are you guys debating?” I think Pastor thought he would come in for back up. It was cool.
Pastor Robert began talking with Kyle, asking him about his religious background. This gave me opportunity to speak with the other three. After about 15 minutes or so, Pastor Robert had Kyle calmed down and I had been carrying on a civil (intellectual) conversation with the other three. They all were very resistant to God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ. One of the young ladies was Jewish and outright rejected Jesus as Messiah.
Pastor ended up leaving and I spent the next hour or so reasoning with these collage kids. As I continued to press them with the Law, the Holy Spirit seemed to be breaking up the hardness of their hearts. One of them asked, “Ok, if the whole world is on their way to Hell, why do Christians say God is all loving? Why does He want to send everyone to Hell?”
I took this as my queue for giving them the Gospel. As I began to share God’s love with them, it seemed like they softened even more. They were not justifying themselves in their sin, or blaspheming God’s Name – just quietly listening without argument.
In the end, they heard the Gospel at least three of four times and here’s the best part, they ALL took Bibles and tracts. Can you believe it? We should – “the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.” Please pray for Kyle and these three dear souls. God is so good and His Word is true!
Is preaching the Gospel worth it? Is getting hassled by the police worth it? Can we get discouraged? Could the beginning of this encounter with Kyle and his friends, seem to some as unloving? Yes – Yes – Yes! It’s all worth it.
I thank God for this encounter with Kyle and his friends. I don’t need confirmation from God but He knows we need encouragement from time to time. Wow – what a blessing to partake in Gospel fellowship with our Triune God. Praise be to the Lamb that was slain!
Posted by Ambassador at 1:38 AM | 4 comments
4 Comments:
My Profile
Ambassador
Oceano, California
my email address is apeek33@yahoo.com
View my complete profile
Start spreading the word: Abort73 Graphics / Abort73 Shirts
More Videos
That was kinda weird. It doesn't seem like police would be able to act on people's "annoyance", but on the other hand I can kind of see where he is coming from. I wouldn't want some jehova's witness coming out to the pier preaching out loud when I'm trying to enjoy the beautiful sun. It seems like that would be disturbing the peace just as much as if you or I where to preach. (The difference is that we have the truth, and they don't. So, heheh...I'm less annoyed at the truth, and people should be glad to hear the good news.) So, heres the thing for me - I would probably just do what the officer says and just start some one2one witnessing somewhere else so as to respect the "annoyed ears". But thats just me. Knowing you, you would do everything you could to get the truth to those who wouldn't hear and the result is allways WAY better than I ever expect. Just like with the story you have here with kyle, and the college students - they didn't like creationism, but you kept on pushing, and look! Every one of them took the most valuable(and hated) book in the whole universe! Keep it up bro!
-Josh
I think one important issue you're missing is the policeman observed you THEN told you to stop. He determined that you were in fact in violation of CPC 415 and gave you a great break by telling you to move on. It's not like you stopped or anything, right? You remained in violation of his instructions (the law) after being told you were disturbing the peace and if you've OPEN AIR preached there since then you REMAIN in violation of the law. It doesn't matter if you've been caught.....see BIBLE.
Now, when you're in violation of the law how can you stand up there and preach the LAWS of God? That just doesn't set well brother.
Now you've heard it from two people so.....isn't it time to spend a little more time at HOME and serve the Lord in a different, more effective way?
You won't.
Thank you for your comments Anonymous. I can’t say that you’ve encouraged me but that’s ok – I don’t look for or expect affirmation or encouragement from man. But thank you for reading my blog and posting your thoughts.
I wonder – were you there that day? Sounds like maybe you were. Please allow me to expound on my thoughts, from my perspective.
As I was preaching, the police officer rolled up in his car, stopped and promptly called me over. Again, from my perspective, he didn’t observe anything other than a person exercising their free speech rights.
In addition, based on your comments, it sounds like you didn’t even listen to the podcast, because the officer stated very clearly why he thought I was in violation of the code – and it WASN’T because he observed me breaking the law. He didn’t stop me because he had “determined” that I was in violation of the code. Why do I say that?
Based on his own words, he said he was responding to a complaint. He said, “people are complaining that you are annoying them.” With all due respect Anonymous, if you would have listened to the podcast, maybe you would have caught that important point.
If law enforcement is used to stop freedom of speech in the public arena in the manner this officer did, where is the line drawn? Let’s follow that logic through. I don’t like how God’s holy name is blasphemed in movies. I am offended. More importantly God is offended. Anyhow, I’m so offended that I’m going to call the Hollywood police department to lodge a complaint.
“Officer so-and-so, I am annoyed at the fact that God’s name is used as a cuss word in such-and-such a movie – please do something.” Do you think the law is going to stop Hollywood’s “freedom of speech?” I think not. I wish they could but they can’t. The law that protects their freedom of speech protects your freedom of speech. Maybe that’s a lame argument but… well, since I’m being lame, let me try another one.
Let’s say a church is having a car wash to raise funds for a youth group. During the car wash, the youth pastor and youth stand out on the sidewalk with signs, “hooting-and-hollering,” trying to get people to stop. Some passer-byres come in for the wash and others don’t, but one in particular is offended by the sign the youth pastor is holding up and the manner in which the youth are jumping around trying to get the drivers attention to stop for the car wash. This disgruntled driver calls the police when he or she gets home – lodging their complaint. Anonymous, do you believe the law should be used to shut down the youth pastor’s and youth’s efforts? I think not!
Secondly, if you read the penal code he sighted it makes clear what the definition of “disturbing the peace” is. Anonymous, please read it again.
(2) Any person who MALICIOUSLY AND WILLFULLY disturbs another person by loud and unreasonable noise.
(3) Any person who uses OFFENSIVE WORDS in a public place which are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.
Anonymous – I was not being malicious or willfully disturbing anyone. I was not using offensive words, cussing at people, calling them to fight, or trying to “provoke immediate violent reaction.” I was not in violation of the code.
That doesn’t mean that the officer couldn’t interpret the law differently. He could, and he obviously did. When this happens, lawsuits are filed and it is elevated to judges to sort out – how to interpret the law.
Many people, long before I came to Pismo, have gone before me, doing the same thing and having the same responses. If you desire Anonymous, please read these court cases where a higher judge has ruled.
Cantwell vs Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940) ruled that speech may not be prohibited merely because it offends some listeners.
Forsyth County vs The Nationalist Movement, 112 S Ct. 2395 (1992) ruled that a city may not consider the listeners reactions to a speaker when permitting free speech activities.
Cox vs Louisiana, 379 U.S. 536 (1965) ruled that hecklers may not be allowed to veto a speaker's right of free speech. Police must control a crowd rather than arrest the speaker in order to maintain order.
Thirdly, please look at the Bible again. In it you’ll notice that wherever God’s Word is lifted up and proclaimed, people are “offended.” The Gospel is scandalous! I could soften the message up and make it palatable so people would pat me on the back and church attendees would be comfortable, but I would not be faithful to God’s Word.
People in the church today think that the world has to love us. Jesus said, “A servant is not greater than his master.” Anonymous, are you greater than Jesus Christ? Do you think Jesus was lying when He said this? Read the context of His statement.
John 15:18-25 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates Me hates My Father also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’
Fourthly, I have not only heard it (discouraging words) from “two people,” I’ve heard it from many, many church attendees that they don’t appreciate street preaching. But I can’t base what I do on what men like or don’t like – or on what men say or don’t say. The Bible teaches that we are to preach the Gospel in season and out of season.
Anonymous, do I make you feel uncomfortable with the amount of time I do or do not spend serving the Lord? You recommend that I, “serve the Lord in a different way.”
In what “way” do you suggest - in a, “more effective” way? Help me out and expound on what you mean. In what way do you evangelize?
I believe your expounding is from your heart and ya gotta forgive me for not encouraging you. Sometimes we receive encouragement though in the craziest way so maybe this will act as an encouragement for you to step on over to another ministry approach!! The cups half full, not empty.
You did "WILLFULLY (by training) disturb another person by loud and unreasonable noise".
Let's turn it around. If that same person had said you had a dog on the pier barking and barking and he drove up and your dog wasn't in fact barking, would he have had much to say to you? Of course he wouldn't and they'd log it as "unfounded". By him even approaching you I'm drawn to the conclusion that he concurred with the complaint. He ISN'T required to wait for a complaint but, required to follow-up on them.
Every pier community has clowns, mimes, panhandlers and of course soap box preachers and politicians. It adds to the flavor and amusement of some yet illegal. Most of the time they're allowed to remain until such time as ONE person complains.
So now that you KNOW you're violating the laws of the land......I know you'd rather not ponder that thought.
And as far as MY thoughts on how YOU should serve, I can see from your lengthy response that you're one of those kind who's always itching for the debate....willing to whittle away on people.....following them down the street...when will YOU find happiness brother? If I suggested you bake cookies for old people you'd probably have a 2,000 word rebuttal so I close with "hang loose", keep it up without breaking the law and you'll survive.
Soon after there will be another you.